This episode: It’s time to face reality and figure out just what happens when you die in Dungeons and Dragons.
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55 Comments
Finally! Thank you! :)
This is the first thing I saw today:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdASfwfzJTQ
Man Rodrigo has alot of patience, Stephen asked way to many questions you don’t ask in this situation.
In Rodrigo’s place I would have already thought of a way around this situation: you have a God who can’t oppose the Void directly but is clearly on your side, a character who is somehow being empowered by the tower itself, a crazy inventor and another party of 4 who “might” just be in the same quest you are now…
He can’t give you too much info or else his plan, whatever it might be, will fall to pieces or look like you forced him into implementing it.
Man Rodrigo has alot of patience, Stephen asked way to many questions you don’t ask in this situation.
Stephen HAS NEVER PLAYED before. Ever… You don’t know what questions to ask until you ask them and find out that you don’t ask them.
I know this but Stephen is a smart man, I’m not setting up a joke for you Matthew by the way, he must know that the storyteller can’t tell all his secrets without killing the story. Unlike what Kirk did you don’t ask God why he needs a spaceship, you give it to him and smile while doing it and in D&D the game master is basicaly God and I was pointing out how patient and benevolent Rodrigo was as a gm.
I know this but Stephen is a smart man, I’m not setting up a joke for you Matthew by the way, he must know that the storyteller can’t tell all his secrets without killing the story. Unlike what Kirk did you don’t ask God why he needs a spaceship, you give it to him and smile while doing it and in D&D the game master is basicaly God and I was pointing out how patient and benevolent Rodrigo was as a gm.
Knowing Stephen for 20 years now, I will say only this: That exchange is what Stephen does. Stephen wants to understand WHY something is happening, and moreover, HOW he can take control of the situation. It’s what makes Major Spoilers (and several other things) successful, because Stephen will ask the benevolent deity why it needs a starship EVERY TIME.
I see, I didn’t mean to attack Stephen or something it simply felt to me like he was trying to force Rodrigo’s hard (listening to a guy twice a week doens’t really give me any insight into his mind). But you obviously know him better and could tell he was just being himself and getting a better feel of the situation and trying to get the best possible outcome. If it came out as me isulting/attacking Stephen I’m sorry, you never insult the guy who gives you a voice in the first place.
I see, I didn’t mean to attack Stephen or something it simply felt to me like he was trying to force Rodrigo’s hard (listening to a guy twice a week doens’t really give me any insight into his mind). But you obviously know him better and could tell he was just being himself and getting a better feel of the situation and trying to get the best possible outcome. If it came out as me isulting/attacking Stephen I’m sorry, you never insult the guy who gives you a voice in the first place.
Naaah. I didn’t read it that way at all. I’m just having a discussion with some intarweb friends. :)
Of course, I would be remiss if I didn’t obnoxiously point out that I am one of about six people who know what happens next.
Well, there are those people who are a truly part of the Complete Major Spoilers Experience who know too.
Good, I’m Canadian and by law I have to perpetuate the idea that we’re all ridiculously polite people uncapable of bad thoughts and doing harm to others ; p
Personally I love the fact that we get bits of the story every week, because if the whole thing was available I would: 1 listen to the whole thing in 1 seating and 2 have nothing to look forward next weekend.
Matthew: Wait… Did you just give me a compliment? I better go buy a lottery ticket tonight.
Or are you making a Shatner joke at my expense because we’re both fat and wear hairpieces?
But yes, I will concur, I will ask that question every time because I’m trying to find a way to wrest control of the situation.
And Ricco: Don’t ever feel bad about expressing yourself if you feel we are out of line. That is why we give you the freedom – Of course if you are just saying dick things to be a dick, we take care of that pretty quickly too. A quick visit from a 3/4 Orc does the trick every time.
I knew that there would be a lot of angry and upset people this week, but since this is the first time we’ve faced TPK or even the death of a beloved character, we needed to discuss how this affects the game – especially for people just getting into D&D.
Matthew: Wait… Did you just give me a compliment? I better go buy a lottery ticket tonight.
What? It’s been a year or so, I thought we were due.
Well I’m pissed. I was expecting a quick decision, and the rest of the episode dealing with the consequences. I understand, this being a podcast, you want to let the listeners know how the game works, how you make your decisions and what the options could be, but really, a 30-minute long podcast spent arguing wether Orem should take an extended rest ? That feels like a waste of time.
As Matthew pointed out, Orem is in a tight jam, he doesn’t have time to make plans or weigh options, and IMHO, neither should the player. It would have made more sense to me to have Stephen make the decision last week, and deal with the aftermath this week. I feel robbed of my episode, I feel pretty mad that this week was spent bickering about a decision that should have been made quickly.
Anyway, I guess I’m going to be a bit angry at you guys during the week, but I’ll be back for the podcast next Saturday. But seriously, Matthew is right on this one : I know Stephen doesn’t want to make a bad move and lose the party, and I know it’s a tough decision to make, but you still have to MAKE IT. I’m sorry I bitch so much, but were I in Rodrigo’s place, I would have give Stephen a few minutes to decide and resumed the fight after that, hesitation over or not.
Just my two cents, can’t wait for the next episode.
Next week we’re having a discussion over the uproar today’s show caused. I’m thinking we’ll finally discover what happens to everyone sometime in April, if I’ve done the math correctly. ;)
Heh I was reminded of this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1YmS_VDvMY&feature=related
I’m actually pretty excited to see what new characters you guys might come up with.
Orem now an experienced and battle-hardened(or overly cautious) leader with a dark past recruiting new warriors for his party could be interesting…if that’s the direction we are going to see.
Well I’m pissed. I was expecting a quick decision, and the rest of the episode dealing with the consequences. I understand, this being a podcast, you want to let the listeners know how the game works, how you make your decisions and what the options could be, but really, a 30-minute long podcast spent arguing wether Orem should take an extended rest ? That feels like a waste of time.
Sorry it wasn’t to your liking, sir… As for the discussion, it was a discussion that needed to happen, and I am going on record as saying that it needed to happen out loud. We’re doing more than just play a game here, we’re addressing the mechanics, the human interactions, and kind of doing a critical analysis of what does and doesn’t work in a D&D game and a D&D context. The discussion of what to do when you’ve died (especially for the newbie) is a pretty heavy sort of thing, and the intent was to give that moment it’s due, just as we did with Orem’s character generation, the leveling up process and the basics of combat.
Half the fun is wondering what comes next, and I’ll tell ya from experience, you’re never going to be as happy with the resolution as you were with the infinite possibilities reeling about right now…
Well i thought it was good to hear these problems being thought out. It was like a behind the scenes look. In my mind i would either have the characters from how the other half live bust in which would be the same old same old, or spice it up with Orem sacrificing himself in a crazy blast of arcane power that he learned in some black magic book at the academy that would revive all his comrades ,blow up the skeleton guys and shake down the tower then have *Thoney* fly through this cascading tower free-fall and scoop them onto the airship and then plan from there. just my two cents
*Have no clue how to spell that*
Here’s a peek behind the curtain. When we originally recorded The Tower Part 4 (back in November) the minute the recorder was turned off, Rodrigo had me make a decision. This discussion was a game mechanics discussion so everyone could get a peek inside the heads of those involved.
I agree, it really is part of what makes Critical Hit so great : it’s not just people playing an RPG, it’s also looking at how the game works and how game-mastering works. I also agree it’s what makes Stephen a great host, and it’s probably a good thing he is a newbie.
This episode and my opinion doesn’t detract anything from the quality of the show. Most of my bitching comes from two things : the fact that I expected things to go a lot faster (countered by the show’s purpose and by Stephen’s need to ponder, this being a first for him) and the fact that I still have to wait AN ENTIRE WEEK to see what happens next (and that is just plain cruel guys, how will I ever survive the tension ?).
So yeah, I’m pissed, but I understand the need for this episode. I just would have liked for it to continue after the decision.
PS : why didn’t Orem think of just running out to get Thony ? That poor quirky artificer must feel very left out…
Rodrigo and I had a discussion about me simply running out and getting Thony, until he pointed out that I would have to go through all those instances found in Towers 1-3 again.
I call this great entertainment and a great learning tool. Listening to this podcast has actually rekindled my interest in RPGs and has been the first podcast that’s interested me enough to learn how to use the software my Zune came with.
I’d like like to respond to anyone saying they felt cheated out of an episode or how Stephen was being allowed way too much time to decide on things . . . when I “ran out” of Critical Hit podcasts I went out and found a few more “actual game” D&D podcasts. I suppose these other shows are good enough for what they are, but none of them–NONE–are nearly as entertaining as Critical Hit. I’m not just talking about one particular person or character either; it’s a group effort.
So, I’ll keep listening and enjoying every episode. Critical Hit doesn’t use all the fancy props or have 10 people talking over one another waiting for their next turn. Critical Hit just doesn’t seem to need all this extra stuff getting in the way of the game.
What it does have is a few people hanging out for a while and having some silly fun, and that’s cool. I wish all groups were that way.
Thanks for taking the time to do these shows. Take care.
I agree. After finding Critical Hit I went and collected every “actual play” podcast I could find and found they were all just someone recording a session and not a thought out podcast like Critical Hit. The only other “actual play” worth listening is the Penny Arcade + PvP + Wil Wheaton podcast that Wizards of the Coast put together. I’d highly recommend that one. Though it’s much shorter then Critical Hit (they do 8 ~30 minute episodes per “season” with 3 seasons so far [but I believe they’ve just recorded a 4th]) but packed with more jokes.
Excellent episode. Listening to it took me back to when I and my players first faced the “T.P.K.” scenario. Very informative as well, especially the questions asked and the viewpoints discussed. As far as to the decision; like it was mentioned, these characters deaths do not have to be permanent. They can always come back later (The return of these characters and their reunion would be good role play). Death is but a door-Time but a window, so to speak.
I also look forward to hearing how Orem (spelling) handles the aftermath of this.
Plus, this could also give an opportunity for other classes/races to be played and give us a chance to see what they can do. I personally like the entertainment and educational value of these Podcasts.
Thank you all very much for the Podcast and letting us all listen in. I look forward to many more episodes, do not change a thing!
I also enjoyed this look into the big decision that Orem has to make. I can’t imagine being new to D&D and having to decide if everyone lives or dies. I think that the time to flee has come. Every sorcerer gets into this situation at some point since they are in the back of most combats. Advancing in the opposite direction doesn’t have to be cowardly. I like the idea of Orem’s story arc having this tragic backdrop when he gets with his next adventuring party. It’s like we all saw his backstory happen and now the real story has just begun. Good luck Stephen!
I didn’t mind hearing the thought process, I remember the first time I lost a character, how frustrating that was, and coming to the realization that sometimes that happens in a balanced game. One of the things about Critical Hit that I like is these explorations of things as they come up. The last time I played regularly we used a mishmash of AD&D, and AD&D 2nd Edition with lots of homebrew, so I enjoy contemplating the mechanics of 4th Ed.
That being said, “HOW CAN YOU MAKE US WAIT ANOTHER WEEK!” :)
Honestly my biggest concern is what this might do to my plans for future “Torq reviews…” episodes of Major Spoilers Adventures.
That being said, “HOW CAN YOU MAKE US WAIT ANOTHER WEEK!†:)
What can I say, I like keeping people in suspense…If you are wanting more each week, then we are doing our jobs correctly.
I was not a fan of this episode for two main reasons. The first, is that the previous episode ended with a tease which is all fine and good, but when any sort of show ends an episode with a tease it needs to deliver in the next episode which this did not. It is an implied promise to your listeners that was broken. While I don’t think the content delivered was bad per say, it should have released alongside or even after the actual conclusion of the battle.
The second reason is more personal, in that the indecisiveness and repitition was driving me crazy. It wasn’t the fact that Stephen asks questions, but more that he seemed to want to go over the same scenarios time and time again. It felt like this episode was just a rerun of the end of the previous episode.
Emotion is hard to read on the interwebs so I don’t mean this post to be full of anger or anything. Its not like this ruined my day or kill my dog. Just thought it was kind of annoying ;)
but when any sort of show ends an episode with a tease it needs to deliver in the next episode which this did not. It is an implied promise to your listeners that was broken.
I’m sorry if you assumed there would be a conclusion in this episode, and I should point out that not EVERY show that ends with a tease has it resolved the following week; one only has to watch a season of LOST to figure that one out.
I think everyone should be happy we are continuing the show – there was talk of having a season ender with the previous episode and picking back up next year…
Just saying is all.
I suppose I don’t mind the extended cliffhanger, just the fact that I’m not terribly bright and was therefore half an hour into the podcast before I realized that no decision was forthcoming.
Also, are there actually people watching LOST? I had always chalked that show up to an example of gaming the ratings system.
Wow. This episode left me with some D&D “blue balls” we were teased so hard.
I liked the discussion, just not the timing. Having to wait another week is cruel. I started listening a few weeks ago and managed to catch up just in time to start at the beginning of the second tower, so going from as many episodes as I want to 1 per week has been hard on me. Very addicted.
Second, I listened to this the morning before running my first session of D&D as a DM, and ended up nerfing my encounters for fear of “scaring” all my newbie players with a TPK (like apparently Stephen was during this ep). I wished he’d said he had made a decision after last ep like he did on here so I didn’t think it was as soul crushing as it sounds during the episode.
Overall: good discussion, looking forward to next week and keep my Critical Hits coming!
it WAS that soul-wrenching, stephen was completely distraught for about two weeks.
Ahhh… now I see. He decided that truly SHARING the experience meant having us live in the same two-week limbo he went through.
Oh no, you are misunderstanding what Rodrigo is saying, I agonized for two weeks, but in reality WE didn’t find out what happened for almost two months. I figure you don’t want to wait that long.
I would really like to know what are Rodrigo’s feelings on this TPK situation, by the sound of his voice we can tell he feels bad. He sorta forced the team to rush to the tower before an extended rest, Tony said something like “We would be in trouble if our friend (the “Dargon”) came back, so you guys better hurry to the tower”
P.S.- Anyone else think this was caused by bad karma from Orem killing his Unseen Servant?
I don’t feel bad about it. Gandalf didn’t wait around the corner taking a nap before facing the balrog because he’d just dodged some goblins.
I don’t feel bad about it. Gandalf didn’t wait around the corner taking a nap before facing the balrog because he’d just dodged some goblins.
Gandalf wasn’t level 2 when he did it, though. :)
I am tempted to make a flash animation of the campaign…tempted though. The time invested would be too much for me.
Gotta say, was so hoping for the decision in this episode! But I like hearing the step-by-step thing, trying to figure out what to do, because that is how I would respond in this situation myself.
Reading above, I noticed that it was said that you guys thought about picking it up later on and I’m really glad you guys didn’t stop and decide to wait. I can’t guarantee or know how many guys listen, but I know around midnight or one on Friday/Saturday if I’m awake I make sure I download the episodes and give them a listen!
Hope the episodes keep coming and if not, hope you guys still have some sort of DnD fun.
Hey!
Overall great show! I’ve just caught up on the podcast and did feel a little teased by this one, but it’s understandable. I’d like to see a episode where Stephen with Rodrigo or maybe the whole group talk about Stephens RPG experience so far. Especially the transition from WoW to D&D. If I had a little more context of his ideas about D&D in general I think this conversation would have made more sense. When faced with death the other players seemed to have an attitude of simply “it happens.” A conversation less about which decision to make and more about why the decision was difficult would have been interesting. Also this seems like a example of where the tabletop RPG is about Role Playing and the computer experience is something different.
One thing to throw out there is have you taught about making some cheat sheets? I know the character sheets can get a little crowded. I like that you guys talk through why you’re getting the numbers that you are. To pick on Matthew, how many times do we need to get confused about how much damage Torq does on a critical. Why not have a cheat sheet with that outcome and some of the other more common rolls laid out with the formula. I realize the character sheet is supposed to do that, but I cheat sheet with AXE (Critical Hit): Max+STR MOD+Etc+Etc would be easier for the player, GM, and listener. Just a suggestion! Otherwise keep up the good work! Great Podcast!
To pick on Matthew, how many times do we need to get confused about how much damage Torq does on a critical.
I don’t get confused. I say, “Rodrigo, how many points is that?” and he tells me. :) Where’s the problem?
When I first started listening to the podcast I was very annoyed at the “newb” mistakes or questions Stephen would ask. He’s a quick guy, SURELY he must KNOW by know that you add your proficiency bonus…yadda yadda yadda…
Then I took a step back: Stephen (and CH and MS crew) are GREAT for the industry. Do you know how much money I’ve spent since finding them over a year ago! The bastards! If they convert just one newb a week…it only does us good. By playing the inquisitive everyman, Stephen makes DnD approachable.
And if I don’t like an episode, no one is holding a gun to my head to listen to it :)
But I am excited to find out, and understand everyone’s eagerness to find out.
Yes, the N00B moments in the show are designed for those who are new to D&D (and to secretly infuriate those who have been playing for decades) ;)
that’s right, they’re designed that way, the schleichertron 1976 is a marvel of modern vacuum tube technology, it is capable of generating content, constructing complex chains of html code and even instruct others in the use of both basic AND advanced video techniques. It is also completely incapable of remembering that his character attacks with his INTELLIGENCE and not his INITIATIVE. If you’d like to order one you can contact us at podcast@majorspoilers.com, we’re currently developing the 2008 and 2011 models.
that’s right, they’re designed that way, the schleichertron 1976 is a marvel of modern vacuum tube technology
Somebody sold you a bum steer, ‘Rigo. That’s clearly a 1970, you can tell by the inscription on the tail-lights. Ya shoulda got yerself a Carfax.
Save Torq! I think Orem should run away, come back later w help and hope for the best. I cant picture an “heroic death” via an eladrin in prolonged melee.
I kept thinking that you would tell us what happens at the end but it should have been obvious from the absence of Brian and Rob that you wouldn’t be continuing the plot this week. So I will be back next week unless my head explodes in the mean time.
Man, this is worse than “Who shot JR”…mainly because I didn’t CARE about Dallas…
I understand the hesitation; I know I’ve grown attached to the characters and I’m just a listener – I can’t imaging if I were playing them.
Best of luck and I’ll be anxiously awaiting next Saturday’s podcast…again ;)
Lsitened to the podcasdt once or twice and I think I’ve figured out the best solution for Orem.
First he must run and see that if he dies the world dies… And he dies! Also he must take the extended rest from which he will gain all his awesome powers back and then go abck in the room- If the skeletons are;
a)bloodied-kill those bastards or save rendus randis I dunno and Torq( spelling is hard :( )
b)not bloodied- see if you can save someone and RUN!!!
c)not there-laugh at rodrigo and save any companions not dead
d)frozen again- stealth check and have Torq roll nat 20 then save anyone you can
Other than this advice I can only agree with Matthew and say do something Rodrigo doesn’t see coming like go into the plains with all the eladrin then come back behind the skeletons and sab them in the back with the rogue you brought back then save everyone
Hey guys,
Just my two cents, I would like to agree with some of those that have gone before, I was fairly disappointed that there was no outcome to this situation in this podcast.
I am not unhappy to hear this discussion I just would rather all this discussion take place at the end of the previous episode rather than during the episode that was billed as “listen in to hear the outcome”.
(I know that there was a big gap since this episode and the last one’s recording, etc, etc. So I don’t know how it could have been possible, but still it would have been better done differently.)
In any case, if someone was cynical they could suggest that this was your plan all along, to just bait people even though you had no intention of telling us what was going to happen…..
Like I said guys I just wanted to throw my two cents in.
I really do love the show and have been enjoying it as someone that has never actually played D&D.
Thanks.
-C!
No matter what anyone says, you all know that extending it an extra week was a good idea because this episode has 50 comments which is more than ive ever seen for an individual episode. I was wondering about Stephen’s comment though. You said you all had to wait two months? How was that? Did you make your choice over the phone or something and then not get back together for another month and a half or what?? That wouldve been torture for sure.
Following the recording of The Tower Part 4, Rodrigo made me make a decision as to whether or not I was going to run or fight. It was a pretty sure thing, but Rodrigo and I had the What If? discussions that lead to this episode (33). We recorded The Tower Part 4 (Episode 32) on or around the second week of November. We did not sit down to record episode 34 (being released this weekend) until mid-January when everyone had returned from break. So for those who are actually involved in the game itself, it was very close to two months before we even knew what the fate of Torq, Orem, Randus, and Smith are/will be.
If listeners haven’t figured it out yet, we record four to five episodes each time we get together. So what you heard this week, was recorded three weeks ago. This ensures that we have plenty of episodes in the can should scheduling conflicts arise. Another interesting thing to keep in mind is we have only had seven gaming sessions total.
Personally I second the idea that there were some questions that should have been answered by Rodrigo as, “I could work, you’ll have to see.” or something similar. Not that I think the questions were dumb, quite the contrary, those are the important questions to consider. I think they should have just been answered by the other players as possible answers, that way there isn’t a chance at revealing what WOULD happen, which is a huge part of the game. Now, that said, Rodrigo did a great job of answering the questions in a way that made sense, were helpful, but didn’t actually state what was going to happen.
that said, I love the show, and as soon as my forum account gets approved I’m gonna post some questions about game mechanics :)
I know this is ancient, but I’m listening to this right now.
Orem… Run to Torq, drink the potion yourself, and blast the bejeebus out of the skellies, and hope the potion gives you enough buffer to win!
Or something. Don’t let Torq die!
(Yes, I know this is in the past, but I can’t yell this out loud, so I have to type it. Sue me. )
Didn’t Orem have some kind of nasty virus in a jar? Why didn’t he use that?
Twitter Summary:
#CriticalHit #Ep33 @MajorSpoilers, @MightyKingCobra, & @FearsomeCritter have an extended discussion on whether OR should run & live or stay.